Curse

LexTalionis · Jan 17, 2012, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I don't PvP much outside of trying to create incredibly annoying (but impractical) builds in JQ, but after running around with an Echo/Arcane Echo/Arcane Larceny/Arcane Theft/Diversion "Annoy-the-monk" build, I just wanted to know - Is there a reason people don't really use either of these two skills in RA?

I was just thinking that they're kinda fast, there's not really much of a way to counter them, they don't really have a recharge, and there's a hell of a lot of builds that splash in only one or two spells that they're way too over-reliant on. Healer bars already seem pretty strained in RA to the point where 1-2 random disables might be crippling.

Reverend Dr · Jan 17, 2012, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Because they are not good. Many times people have tried, the problem is that they are particularly random in what they target as opposed to the often used signet of humilitay which always targets the elite. It is much better to use skills such as shame or diversion or other forms of shutting down. Furthermore any build designed to completely shut down one character (echo blackout) just doesn't work terribly well as you are sacrificing an entire character for limited shutdown of another.

About the only time I've seen arcane thievery successfully used was way back during the gale warrior meta to strip the gale off of warriors (and then have the me/e with thievery turn around and make use of gale).

Lukyboy · Jan 17, 2012, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Short answer: there are better options, like Diversion, Signet of Humility and rupts.

They look like fun, but they're not that great for a couple reasons.

The randomness of it; disabling a key skill with something like Diversion or Signet of Humility at a good time is far more effective then a random skill.

You can't do anything with that skill; you'll have no attribute points in the spell you steal, so you cant use it. The enemy will have 6 skills, but so do you.

Its super long duration; while that might seem good to annoy people, you couldve done alot more useful stuff with something like diversion in that same time, on multiple targets instead of just 1. you're stuck with that useless spell for quite a while

Fluffy Kittens · Jan 17, 2012, 09:30 PM // 21:30

You can throw in one of those, it might decide the game every now and then, but never focus on or expect anything from that skill. Also, I strongly advise you to only bring one of those and play it without echo.

LexTalionis · Jan 18, 2012, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Thanks for the response - it was actually more of a meta RA question - As a Dom, I usually only end up using 6 skills in PvP (probably because I don't play particularly well). The big problem was that I have huge latency issues thanks to my ISP, which means reactive skills are a lot weaker compared to someone living in the U.S.A. - Of course, using the skill was pretty much never a consideration.

I thought it'd be far less random given that since many meta builds (and people use a lot of PvX stuff) usually only bring one or two spells that they're reliant on, the shutdown would be somewhat severe - (Conjure on Assassins, Harrier's Hast/Onslaught on Dervs, using Thievery on a standard ranger is almost guaranteed to land you mending touch. etc).

Some Warriors don't bring any, but they're not valid targets for the spell - but maybe I just only got good results in FA/JQ with Thievery because people have been messing with Gust axe recently (and stealing gust is kind of useful). 'course, Humility would do that too.

Missing HB · Jan 18, 2012, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Furthermore any build designed to completely shut down one character (echo blackout) just doesn't work terribly well as you are sacrificing an entire character for limited shutdown of another.

Probably the best answer.. It's working fine if you add 1 steal skill in an esurge mesmer bar for anything, but if you make a bar entirely relying on luck, then it's not gonna work so much... Either you keep stealing key skills and you may win, either not and the fight is basically 3v4 then( or 7v8)

Besides, i don't really think it's worth on this meta, when there is a rit, 2 monks, stone sheath and melee that usually tend to lineback to hell... Except if you manage to steal RC from the prot eventually, this is quite useless...

That's basically the same problem as people going in RA as pblock mesmer... Everyone knows most of these air or earth eles are camping a 40/40 set and it's once again here relying quite on luck...

LexTalionis · Jan 18, 2012, 12:06 PM // 12:06

@HB: I said RA/Other informal PvP formats ^^; It's pretty obviously not very good in organised PvP.

Also, It's not quite the same as Blackout - Blackout shuts down the entire bar, while Larcent/Theft don't exclude you using Esurge/Diversion etc. But I get the gist - random factors aren't very popular. (Understandably)

Skyy High · Jan 18, 2012, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Good for lulz. I sometimes use it in JQ on a Sig of Illusions build and just throw out random skills the entire match. Good for learning just how well you know all the different spells in GW just by their icons.

Reverend Dr · Jan 18, 2012, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexTalionis

But I get the gist - random factors aren't very popular. (Understandably)

Its not the random factors, its that the bar is ultimately much less disruptive and less effective than other options.

I also forgot to add that arcane thievery/larceny have a chance of stealing the same spell, such that even though you've cast two spells, you have only disabled one spell.